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Yes Means Yes!
Lakshmi.Flavin
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-09-29 15:19:21
Levity needs to be added to discussion about rape? ok...
I wonder why the automatic conclusion by some is that this is only here to be exploited against rich men and instutions and isn't even thought of in the least as somethign that would help victims of rape? Is the only victim out there the rich male?
As with anything that carries possible monetary gains, rape lawsuits are more likely aimed at a rich person, and males tend to be the most common targets by a large margin. The issue is that so many victims are instantly shamed or discredited as gold diggers, etc. It would be quite nice is the victim shaming at least held off until there is at least some indication of nefarious motives. The accused being rich is just a fact, not a motivation. Could it also be posited that males are the most common target because they are the most common perpertrators of rape against both sexes?
I'm fully aware that there are people out there looking to take advantage of you.
It makes me think sometimes of the people that blame the victim of rape for dressing too slutty or drinking too much or just putting it out there like they want it... Why not feel the same about the person who goes out and sleeps with some strange and gets robbed because of it? they slept with some random knowing full well they might be out to con em... so?
Cerberus.Anjisnu
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2803
By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-09-29 15:19:29
Never said anything about rich males being targets plenty of poor ones will get *** as well. Says who? You've shown nowhere in the new bill that someone only has to be above the .08 limit to be unable to give consent. So tell me oh wise one... how will all the men get their wallets ***? Also, please explain to us how the monetary payments in civil court are determined and awarded to the victim since you know so much about this and understand fully how guys are only going to get crucified by this and no one benefits.
Personally I won't lose any sleep over people who get charged over raping someone.
Again never said anything about monetary stuffs maybe getting my posts confused with others mentioning money?
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 303
By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-09-29 15:29:07
Forgive me if this sounds ignorant - but it just seems like ALL the responsibility is being shifted onto the male.
Rather than encouraging women to drink responsibly and be aware of they are accountable for their own actions, this is saying men need to check, check, check and check again.
On the bright side, I could make a lot of money selling "Bullet proof Consent Kit - breathalyzer, urine tester, blood tester and consent form all in 1, only 99.99 - order now and get a free pack of condoms"
edit: Just stay home and spank it. That or you better video tape the intercourse in case you ever end up in court.
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VIP
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-29 15:29:34
Levity needs to be added to discussion about rape? ok...
I wonder why the automatic conclusion by some is that this is only here to be exploited against rich men and instutions and isn't even thought of in the least as somethign that would help victims of rape? Is the only victim out there the rich male?
As with anything that carries possible monetary gains, rape lawsuits are more likely aimed at a rich person, and males tend to be the most common targets by a large margin. The issue is that so many victims are instantly shamed or discredited as gold diggers, etc. It would be quite nice is the victim shaming at least held off until there is at least some indication of nefarious motives. The accused being rich is just a fact, not a motivation. Could it also be posited that males are the most common target because they are the most common perpertrators of rape against both sexes?
I'm fully aware that there are people out there looking to take advantage of you.
It makes me think sometimes of the people that blame the victim of rape for dressing too slutty or drinking too much or just putting it out there like they want it... Why not feel the same about the person who goes out and sleeps with some strange and gets robbed because of it? they slept with some random knowing full well they might be out to con em... so?
Well, males are the more common perpetrator to be sure. As far as blaming the victim for dressing slutty or drinking too much...
There is a certain amount of responsibility for someone who does not take the minimally invasive precautions to deter becoming a victim. Someone walking down a dark alley in a bad part of town with nice clothes on could be described as "inviting" someone to mug them. Why is it so many people would agree with that but not that a girl who dresses "slutty" then gets shithammered with a group of people who they either don't know or when nobody trustworthy is there to make sure they're safe? I don't condone rape or muggings, obviously, but it's easy to attribute innocent victimhood to one group and not another because of the particularly distasteful subject matter.
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Cerberus.Anjisnu
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2803
By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-09-29 15:31:37
Not saying real rape doesn't happen even I'm not that jaded
Lakshmi.Flavin
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-09-29 15:31:57
You've shown nowhere in the new bill that someone only has to be above the .08 limit to be unable to give consent. That's the problem though.
What is the cutoff between legal consent? Is it the legal limit of being drunk? Is it when you are passed out drunk? Is it some magic number in between?
That is the real problem with this bill.... I think you've misterpreted what those definition sections are for. It's not to redefine a word but more to define a situation.
Take for example if you were to mention athletic activity for something.
You might see that defined in another section to determine whether that is general athletic activity or something where actual athletes participating is something that is being spoken about.
If it isn't defnined then it's free game for either but it can not be interpreted as something other than athletic activity. It's specification on something in the group not reaching outside what it could actually be.
So the definition of the terminology used is what it is.
If incapacitated or unconcious meant something else then yes. but you'd still only be able to use that term as it has always been sued.
Cerberus.Anjisnu
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2803
By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-09-29 15:34:53
Gonna be sad when safe sex means having a full legal team present during
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Quetzalcoatl.Maldini
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 303
By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-09-29 15:36:22
I don't know who goes out clubbing and who doesn't, but drunk women can be really problematic...just as problematic as drunk men if not worse..
I've seen women do all sorts of crazy dodgy ***like ask to be bought a drink and then insist on getting drink and then start going bat ***crazy when one refuses. Or girls threatening "I'll say you touched me" when they don't get their way. They stampede through the streets causing all sorts of ruckus and sometimes will throw things at random cars passing by. If it was a guy doing that you could feel confident enough to get down and rip him a new one, but with females its inviting more problems.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-29 15:36:35
If incapacitated or unconcious meant something else then yes. but you'd still only be able to use that term as it has always been sued. Unconscious aside, the legal term and definition of "incapacitated" has been fought in court before, as has what consent means.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 127
By Fenrir.Squintik 2014-09-29 15:43:26
Gonna be sad when safe sex means having a full legal team present during
GoPro or Go Home, I say.
By Blazed1979 2014-09-29 15:45:12
So much grey area ... for a subject as delicate and complex as sexual consent, you would think that they would say "YES means YES, girls don't drink yourselves stupid and behave like responsible members of society"
VIP
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-29 15:47:28
So much grey area ... for a subject as delicate and complex as sexual consent, you would think that they would say "YES means YES, girls don't drink yourselves stupid and behave like responsible members of society"
Just because women are most often the victim doesn't mean consent laws exist solely to protect harlots. In its own way, that's just as discriminatory as victim shaming.
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Lakshmi.Aelius
VIP
By Lakshmi.Aelius 2014-09-29 15:47:28
So by this, can I kill someone while drunk-smashed and then get away with it because I am considered unconscious and therefore an alibi that I wasn't aware of my actions?
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サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 127
By Fenrir.Squintik 2014-09-29 15:48:21
So much grey area ... for a subject as delicate and complex as sexual consent, you would think that they would say "YES means YES, girls don't drink yourselves stupid and behave like responsible members of society"
Except NO means NO, MAYBE means YES (except when it means NO), and YES means MAYBE.
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サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-29 15:49:21
So by this, can I kill someone while drunk-smashed and then get away with it because I am considered unconscious and therefore an alibi that I wasn't aware of my actions? Never really thought it that way, but I think driving while intoxicated laws would override this specific law.
A good lawyer would argue in that instance though. Need one stupid judge though.
VIP
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-29 15:50:36
So by this, can I kill someone while drunk-smashed and then get away with it because I am considered unconscious and therefore an alibi that I wasn't aware of my actions?
It could work against a charge like Murder 2, but not against manslaughter or negligence resulting in death. There are multiple levels of most charges and a good prosecutor would use the charge that applied to the situation or multiple charges tried congruently.
I know it was a hypothetical, but it is a good point.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-29 15:57:48
So by this, can I kill someone while drunk-smashed and then get away with it because I am considered unconscious and therefore an alibi that I wasn't aware of my actions?
Not unless someone gave you the keys and pushed you to drive. One could always argue about that.
By Blazed1979 2014-09-29 16:04:14
So much grey area ... for a subject as delicate and complex as sexual consent, you would think that they would say "YES means YES, girls don't drink yourselves stupid and behave like responsible members of society"
Except NO means NO, MAYBE means YES (except when it means NO), and YES means MAYBE.
There are going to be some interesting threesome conversations going on...
Caitsith.Zahrah
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-09-29 16:04:21
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »I don't know who goes out clubbing and who doesn't, but drunk women can be really problematic...just as problematic as drunk men if not worse..
I've seen women do all sorts of crazy dodgy ***like ask to be bought a drink and then insist on getting drink and then start going bat ***crazy when one refuses. Or girls threatening "I'll say you touched me" when they don't get their way. They stampede through the streets causing all sorts of ruckus and sometimes will throw things at random cars passing by. If it was a guy doing that you could feel confident enough to get down and rip him a new one, but with females its inviting more problems.
Aside from one major incident that I hate recalling, I've seen a tiny girl pop a guy with a tequila bottle. Not sure what provoked it. I've seen a guy whip his girlfriend with a keg tap twice during a woodsie before having his *** handed to him by two other guys.
Jackassery is among both genders.
As for your other post...Yes, some girls are taught how to conduct themselves in social situations with alcohol. There's a learning curve that you also have to catch hold of out of experience.
Then, you always have dear old dad's mantra, "If a man isn't acting like a gentleman, you don't have to be a lady," which basically translates to, "You have carte blanche to serve up a nut shot or slug to the brow if the situation warrants it." That might be a double-edged sword though.
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サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-29 16:04:42
So much grey area ... for a subject as delicate and complex as sexual consent, you would think that they would say "YES means YES, girls don't drink yourselves stupid and behave like responsible members of society"
Except NO means NO, MAYBE means YES (except when it means NO), and YES means MAYBE.
There are going to be some interesting threesome conversations going on... 2girls1form?
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-29 16:06:14
Aside from one major incident that I hate recalling, I've seen a girl tiny girl pop a guy with a tequila bottle. I remember seeing that too once.
I laughed my *** off when I saw that. Then I saw that the guy was my friend I was with at the time, so I laughed harder.
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サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2014-09-29 16:06:34
YouTube Video Placeholder
By Blazed1979 2014-09-29 16:08:58
So much grey area ... for a subject as delicate and complex as sexual consent, you would think that they would say "YES means YES, girls don't drink yourselves stupid and behave like responsible members of society"
Except NO means NO, MAYBE means YES (except when it means NO), and YES means MAYBE.
There are going to be some interesting threesome conversations going on... 2girls1form?
That and one could say yes to the other and mean no to you before/during?
Girl A "I meant yes to him but not her"
Girl B "I meant yes to her but not him"
or
Girl A "I said yes to him and yes to her but not all 3 at the same time"
Girl B "I said yes to him and yes to her but they made me the fluffer"?
or
Guy "I said yes to both of them together but no to each of them individually"?
idk lol, this seems HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-29 16:11:34
So much grey area ... for a subject as delicate and complex as sexual consent, you would think that they would say "YES means YES, girls don't drink yourselves stupid and behave like responsible members of society"
Except NO means NO, MAYBE means YES (except when it means NO), and YES means MAYBE.
There are going to be some interesting threesome conversations going on... 2girls1form?
That and one could say yes to the other and mean no to you before/during?
Girl A "I meant yes to him but not her"
Girl B "I meant yes to her but not him"
or
Girl A "I said yes to him and yes to her but not all 3 at the same time"
Girl B "I said yes to him and yes to her but they made me the fluffer"?
or
Guy "I said yes to both of them together but no to each of them individually"?
idk lol, this seems HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE.
By Blazed1979 2014-09-29 16:14:39
So much grey area ... for a subject as delicate and complex as sexual consent, you would think that they would say "YES means YES, girls don't drink yourselves stupid and behave like responsible members of society"
Except NO means NO, MAYBE means YES (except when it means NO), and YES means MAYBE.
There are going to be some interesting threesome conversations going on... 2girls1form?
That and one could say yes to the other and mean no to you before/during?
Girl A "I meant yes to him but not her"
Girl B "I meant yes to her but not him"
or
Girl A "I said yes to him and yes to her but not all 3 at the same time"
Girl B "I said yes to him and yes to her but they made me the fluffer"?
or
Guy "I said yes to both of them together but no to each of them individually"?
idk lol, this seems HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE. I got the joke I was just expanding.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-29 16:30:38
So much grey area ... for a subject as delicate and complex as sexual consent, you would think that they would say "YES means YES, girls don't drink yourselves stupid and behave like responsible members of society"
Except NO means NO, MAYBE means YES (except when it means NO), and YES means MAYBE.
There are going to be some interesting threesome conversations going on... 2girls1form?
That and one could say yes to the other and mean no to you before/during?
Girl A "I meant yes to him but not her"
Girl B "I meant yes to her but not him"
or
Girl A "I said yes to him and yes to her but not all 3 at the same time"
Girl B "I said yes to him and yes to her but they made me the fluffer"?
or
Guy "I said yes to both of them together but no to each of them individually"?
idk lol, this seems HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE. I got the joke I was just expanding. I just wanted an excuse to use that .gif, I have been sitting on it for a long time now....
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By fonewear 2014-09-30 07:23:16
This isn't to page nine yet I'm disappointed.
By fonewear 2014-09-30 07:25:06
Maybe still means yes though right ?
Watch out for them drunk chicks!
Quote: SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — Gov. Jerry Brown announced Sunday that he has signed a bill that makes California the first in the nation to define when "yes means yes" and adopt requirements for colleges to follow when investigating sexual assault reports.
State lawmakers last month approved Senate Bill 967 by Sen. Kevin de Leon, D-Los Angeles, as states and universities across the U.S. are under pressure to change how they handle rape allegations. Campus sexual assault victims and women's advocacy groups delivered petitions to Brown's office on Sept. 16 urging him to sign the bill.
De Leon has said the legislation will begin a paradigm shift in how college campuses in California prevent and investigate sexual assaults. Rather than using the refrain "no means no," the definition of consent under the bill requires "an affirmative, conscious and voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity."
"Every student deserves a learning environment that is safe and healthy," De Leon said in a statement Sunday night. "The State of California will not allow schools to sweep rape cases under the rug. We've shifted the conversation regarding sexual assault to one of prevention, justice, and healing."
The legislation says silence or lack of resistance does not constitute consent. Under the bill, someone who is drunk, drugged, unconscious or asleep cannot grant consent.
Lawmakers say consent can be nonverbal, and universities with similar policies have outlined examples as a nod of the head or moving in closer to the person.
Advocates for victims of sexual assault supported the change as one that will provide consistency across campuses and challenge the notion that victims must have resisted assault to have valid complaints.
"This is amazing," said Savannah Badalich, a student at UCLA, where classes begin this week, and the founder of the group 7000 in Solidarity. "It's going to educate an entire new generation of students on what consent is and what consent is not ... that the absence of a no is not a yes."
The bill requires training for faculty reviewing complaints so that victims are not asked inappropriate questions when filing complaints. The bill also requires access to counseling, health care services and other resources.
When lawmakers were considering the bill, critics said it was overreaching and sends universities into murky legal waters. Some Republicans in the Assembly questioned whether statewide legislation is an appropriate venue to define sexual consent between two people.
There was no opposition from Republicans in the state Senate.
Gordon Finley, an adviser to the National Coalition for Men, wrote an editorial asking Brown not to sign the bill. He argued that "this campus rape crusade bill" presumes the guilt of the accused.
SB 967 applies to all California postsecondary schools, public and private, that receive state money for student financial aid. The California State University and University of California systems are backing the legislation after adopting similar consent standards this year.
UC President Janet Napolitano recently announced that the system will voluntarily establish an independent advocate to support sexual assault victims on every campus. An advocacy office also is a provision of the federal Survivor Outreach and Support Campus Act proposed by U.S. Sen. Barbara Boxer and Rep. Susan Davis of San Diego, both Democrats.
No reason to go to bars in California anymore! Over all though I agree with most of the bill.
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